A Q&A with Mary Cleaver, the author of You Can’t Live in the Ceilings.

What kind of experience did you have before you sat down to write this book?

I'm married with two teenage daughters and I lead a real estate team in Vancouver. Before real estate, I worked in marketing and promotion at two major record labels.

The music business was my chosen career, and I would have done it forever had technology not come in and kind of put a wrench in my plans. So I kind of had to reinvent myself with a one-year-old and a four-year-old. And that's how real estate came about. Fourteen years later, I wouldn't have it any other way – I love my work!

Writing the book was a first venture for sure. I have always written all the content on my website. I've done blog posts at certain points. And I'm a bit political, so I've written lots of letters to the editor and things like that. I love writing. My mom was an independent editor, so I come at it naturally, but this is definitely my first book.

Why should a buyer or seller understand the process as completely as you explain in your book? Isn’t that why they hire a real estate agent in the first place?

I've actually been told that in talking to some people about writing this book. That has been an objection, if you will. It should be for everyone who buys and sells a home, honestly, and the reason is this: even a relatively entry-level price in Vancouver is $800,000 or $1 million. The stakes are high, so a little preparation is warranted.

The book should arouse questions in people, really, and then we can go into them even further. For people who want to know more and come to it prepared and want to collaborate, the book will be valuable.

Some people ask me, “is it just for first-time buyers?” I don't agree with that at all. We only buy or sell homes on average every seven years. By the time you go to sell again, you don't really remember all that much about the process.

I think anyone who wants a better experience, a better home, a better price, a better process, this book will help with that.

There’s a large section of the book devoted to the process of selecting an agent. Why is that so important?

Because while it should be a collaborative process, you do need a lot of expertise from your agent. A high level skill set including local market knowledge, the ability to build and execute strategy, sales and marketing technique and negotiation tactics honed by education and experience.

Most people aren't aware that there is no requirement to work as an agent full time to have a real estate license in BC. There may be some great part time agents out there, for one reason or another, but you can see how this could also be a problem. It's estimated that close to 90% of the real estate business is done by 10% of agents in our marketplace.

I argue in the book that in order to have a really good understanding of the recent sales and active listings, the quality of condo buildings and good relationships with other agents, we need to be active in the market. Negotiating contracts for homes on behalf of our clients every day maintains our skills and keeps us at the top of our game.

If you can choose just one, why wouldn't you choose a full time agent who does a good number of deals, works in your neighbourhood and has excellent Google reviews?

What’s the biggest mistake buyers make when hiring an agent?

I would say the biggest mistake that a buyer makes when choosing an agent is kind of not choosing one at all – not taking the time and attention. For some reason, there's a misconception that it doesn't really matter who I choose on the buy side. I think that's absolutely untrue, because we're usually in a seller's market.

In most markets in the city of Vancouver, do you think it's easier to buy a house or sell a house? When you're going to compete with six other people for this house, or you're going to try to find a home for your family in a very under-inventoried market, and you've got leaky condos to avoid, you've got all kinds of other things, different development plans, community plans, the zoning is all changing.

I mean, there's a lot of moving parts here. I'd like to see people use the same process to hire a buyer's agent that they do to hire a listing agent. It matters every bit as much.

You include a lot of stories from your professional and personal real estate experiences. Why was that important?

I feel like stories really illustrate the point so much better. I mean, you can talk about the negotiation process and different things, but every story, I think they're fun to read. I've had a few people read the book and come back to me with comments that it is the stories that help them remember things.

There's a story in the book about buyer's remorse, for example. This is very, very typical. It happens a lot. It doesn't just happen with buyers. It can be sellers too. Buyer's remorse is a generic term for when you've made this decision and you're like, “oh, did I make the right one?” The story of a client asking me to buy their house back for them because they were uncertain about the next step and scared really is visceral.

I feel it to this day how that made me feel to have to smooth that out and the responsibility I felt to her to get her a new house in time for her not to feel like she really did regret selling the one that we just sold. The stories punctuate the points and help people understand on a level that's deeper than “do this, do that, do this.”

Speaking of which: “You Can’t Live In The Ceilings,” where does the title come from? What does it mean?

Well, that's one of my favourite stories. I was buying a house in Vancouver and I had a roommate and a boyfriend who was going to move in with us, but I was the one buying the house. I had a really lovely agent.

We looked at a unit on Maple St. in Kitsilano that had these beautiful vaulted ceilings, but it was only 750 sq. ft., two beds, one bath, so quite small for three people to live in. I didn't care. It was beautifully staged. It was just adorable. I loved everything about it and I was ready to write an offer on it. I was in the home with my boyfriend, roommate and my agent all at the same time.

My roommate Stephen went into the second bedroom, which would have been his, and he stood in the middle and reached out and touched one side, then he reached out and touched the other side and he said, “I think this might be a little too small.” My now husband, Brodie, said, “yeah, I don't think this is going to work for the three of us.” I was totally undeterred.

I loved this home. I looked at my agent and said, “Dale, what do you think?” He was super calm and he looked at me and he said, “you can't live in the ceilings, Mary.” Instantly, I got it. He had found this way to tell me that, even when I didn't trust Stephen or Brodie.

What is the biggest takeaway you want readers to get from this book?

That you as the reader will get more out of your experience, you will enjoy it more, you'll feel more confident in it, less overwhelmed by the choices and the speed at which it moves, if you know a little bit about how our industry works. It pulls the curtain back on all the things that are happening behind the scenes.

This is an insider view: this is what happens; this is what you get to choose from. These are some of the considerations about why you might make certain choices, so that when you're called on to make them, you can participate fully and feel confident in that. And you can hold your real estate professional accountable along the way.

And you'll have the background and a process to choose an agent with the skill set and commitment to service to get you the best results possible.

You Can’t Live in the Ceilings is available now on Amazon or directly from the publisher. Watch the book trailer and be on the lookout, because we’ll be posting exclusive excerpts over the next few weeks here on The Guide, so you can get a sneak peek at what’s inside.